Consultation launches for Central Retail Park

The so-called park looks to be rather lacking in greenery and significantly overshadowed by the tower block.
I think a better comparison for size would be Mayfield Park (~4.5 acres) which this will be well less than half the size of. Mayfield is rammed on good weather days and Ancoats needs a significantly larger amount of green space than is proposed here.

Always a good day when a new park is proposed for Manchester! Not sure why so much of the park fronts onto the busy and noisy Great Ancoats Street though, I wouldn’t want to spend much time in that part of it.

Oops i mismeasured Mayfield Park – its actually about 5.3 acres. The error in my measurement was about half of this entire proposed ‘park’

I’m sorry but the primary focus of the Central Retail Park should be providing green space for the city. Any successful modern city requires significant green spaces, and Manchester doesn’t do this. This is a perfect opportunity. We should not be letting the government use this space for new buildings when there are endless underutilised spaces languishing already around Manchester and other cities. Use these first, and provide something important for the community at CRP, instead.

Does the GPA have any similar plans for Liverpool?

A good question and one we may ask at our Offices + Workspaces event on 10 October – we have GPA’s property director, Dominic Brankin, speaking.

August 27, 2024 at 6:01 pm

By Julia Hatmaker

Silly place for a park

People want a park not just another patch of grass with yet more concrete – not what the people where asking for when they asked for parks, we need to be able to compete with London with actual green space

Better than nothing I suppose but it looks like buildings with a bit of green, rather than a park. This perfect space for a park, wasted on buildings which could go anywhere in the city. Only in Manchester. The city with a phobia of decent public realm, for its citizens.

It’s not really a park and disingenuous to call it that. The levels challenge between Great Ancoats and the Marina also present a clear obstacle to creating a cohesive park. However I do believe that Ancoats and surrounding residents are well-served with amenity space despite objections to the contrary. Look at the Marina, Mayfield Park and the new development at Ancoats Green – all will be less than a 10 minute walk from here. Also Philips Park and Clayton Vale. Not to mention the ‘blue space’ with Ashton and Rochdale Canals. I’ve never really understood the bee in the bonnet about green/amenity space there.

Another example of people asking for discretionary powers be used to ‘pivot’ a site away from an agreed development strategy were the council paid market rate for the site in striking distance of a major rail terminu to ensure they could a transformational employment opportunity. I’m trying to think how big the initial BBC relocation to Salford Quays was greater than 7000, how complacent we are getting.

Can’t believe the noisy entitled minority who knew what the trade-offs of living in the centre of a major city are when they chose to move in are still banging on about how the whole thing should be a park for their personal use.
MCC paid £37 million of taxpayers money for the site as an investment, to bring in new jobs and protect existing ones.
It is just about able to cover core services given its current funding situation and 14 consecutive years of cuts, yet it is supposed to write off that £37 million, find perhaps £10 million to build the park, and then commit to maintaining it in perpetuity? Oh, and tell the Government Property Service that the deal is off, and perhaps they should look elsewhere?
The space that is proposed seems a win in the circumstances, although it does have to be carefully designed and managed to keep down running costs and stop it taking over from Piccadilly Gardens as ASB Ground Zero.
MCC has done well working with partners to deliver stuff like Mayfield, but some people will never be satisfied.

7000 civil servants will be great in this location. Presumably this won’t include the DWP who opened a new HQ a couple of years ago at New Bailey. I thought too some other government department had signed up for offices at First St? I’m losing track but it’s all good news.

If new, high quality green space is to be delivered in this part of the city then the most obvious (and logical?) place is the land in and around Palmerston Street. It is green already and has the Medlock River running through it – and critically it is undevelopable in large parts and the City Council is the freeholder of that land. With a bit of imagination you can see a green corridor running eastwards from Mayfield Park out to Phillips Park and beyond. Therefore the challenge should be to ask why plans have not been instigated to deliver this? Surely it should be part of the new Holt Town Masterplan area??

This is a park, its public realm. Ancoats needs as proper park, which needs more than 1.7 acres.

@hard landscaping choices – absolutely spot on, couldn’t have put it better myself.

Well said Hard Landscaping Choices. People seem to forget that Heaton Park, Mayfield Depot & Angel Meadows exist

You always know it’s a Plan-it Design with the copy and paste zig zag walkways

It’s not really a park is it

People need to stop referring to Heaton Park as part of the equation.It is in Prestwich not Central Manchester. That’s like suggesting Londoners go to Hackney when they live in Belgravia.

Absolutely archaic seeing people say it’s one or the other when it comes to having ample green space in a city centre. This site can accommodate more than 1.7 acres and should be striving for more – especially when the green space next door will be lost to new buildings too.

Ancoats has plenty of green space if residents dare to venture north east…

It’s great news, and really impressive that there is going to be a Civil service hub there too. Many places would give their right one for this and here we are wingeing. I worked in one of those ‘Mills’ back in the 70’s .There was no ‘Islington Marina’ then , the whole of Ancoats was a crumbling and derelict monument to civic decay. Progress isn’t perfect but it is progress.

Why build new offices for the Civil Service when they all work from home?

This needs to 100% be a park in its entirety. Ditch the employment proposal, very short-sighted. I bought a flat local to here and we really need a park more than jobs. I have nowhere to take my dogs that I bought during lockdown. The residents group has said this for months. Ditch the jobs, build the park, stop being selfish.

It’s considered whinging to want more green space in a place which is already oversubscribed.

I’m in favour of more green space in the centre but I am baffled by claims made by some about the lack of green space in Manchester. It doesn’t have giant central parks like London (many cities don’t), but it does have relatively easy access (especially for those willing to get on a bus or tram) to:

Mayfield
Peel Park/The Meadow
Sackville Gardens
Pin Mill Brow (not very far from Great Ancoats St)
Philips Park (the one near the Etihad)
Philips Park (the one near Prestwich)
Drinkwater Park
Heaton Park
Clifton Country Park
Kersal Wetlands
Alexandra Park
Platt Fields Park
Hough End
Clayton Vale
Boggart Hole Clough
Birchfields Park
Sandhills
St Michael’s Flags/Angel Meadow
Green Grosvenor Park
Buile Hill Park
Kersal Moor

An absolute cop out, as expected.

Building very intensively without suitable provision of open space is a very 90s / 00s model of development when Manchester was promoting itself as a good place to invest and was competing hard for jobs.

We’ve now reached a critical mass such that the jobs and investment has arrived (or is arriving) but we risk losing it unless it is supported by really high quality and extensive infrastructure in terms of open space, green space, transport etc. We cannot be complacent on that front.

This development is a welcome transformation a long term eyesore but the cumulative effect of another large site being swallowed up for development could be damaging in the long term as it’s one of the last remaining opportunities to maximise green, open space in the city centre where many thousands of people live and work where they did not only a few years ago.

Let’s not be complacent, hey?

Yes, we all want a park, but I don’t want one here. Quite frankly, this more affluent part of town already has enough public space with the Marina. I’d be much more in favour of smaller pockets of green around the city centre that we can all enjoy. Such as extending Greengate Park, Castlefield Basin area, and as much of Pomona as possible.

Trees not Cars – plenty of green space along the Rochdale Canal to walk your dogs!

It’s not a ‘park’. It’s being called a ‘’park’ to placate the NIMBY climate bicycle lobby. A pity Plan-It haven’t had the courage to give it the big FO and design a proper hard but beautiful public realm.

Whinging only gets you so far. Build it and let them move onto something else like ‘Argggg…there aren’t enough buildings in the countryside’

I support Hard Landscaping Choices comment – brilliant summary

It’s whinging to ask for green space in a city where green space is limited? And also why is it only the people who have moved here? What about the people who have lived here their who lives and work here.
If we approached every site like hard landscaping choices ‘s comments, most opportunities to build green space wouldn’t happen. Oh wait – that’s exactly what has happened in the city for the past few decades. Now who is a selfish whinger?

If only architects had a proper say in these things, and not always the bookkeepers (they call themselves accountants). Thanks to them, Manchester is getting uglier and uglier. Imagine what these concrete blocks will look like in 5 years time.

Oh if only we had green spaces like the suburbs instead of buildings and parks instead of towers and low level buildings also like the suburbs and …err …oh hang on.

I like parks, unfortunately they tend to attract antisocial behaviour. Unsure about this currently…

Sure i saw previous plans for new builds a few years back ?

We need more and more green spaces to off set all the higher and higher buildings that are exploding all over the city. No more office blocks here just GREEN. 💚💚

We’re not being selfish, we’ve lived here since the lockdown, and there have been zero new parks built in that time!

We already have decent jobs and other income, what we need is a park nearby for our dogs and other pets. Anything else like a civil service campus is unacceptable.

@August 28, 2024 at 7:02 pm
By MrP

A problem that can be solved by having police patrolling on foot.

Well said Salfordian

7000 jobs though and some greenery for those who can’t be bothered travelling a mile or two from home..result!

cmon @Salfordian – some of those arent even in the city centre. Making a city centre a place that has everything is what makes it successful and a little bit more green space is needed. Like london, yes it has huge big green parks, but if you walk around there are so many small pockets of green space which get used and are essential for city living

Those parks listed by Salfordian are rough, people want safe parks to fit in with the middle class enclave that has been created in the area

I think the message here from some people is that if you want a nice, liveable, environment in the city, move elsewhere. Other major cities have got it wrong. A rubbish bus ride to a bit of green space on the outskirts of the city centre is all that’s needed for the thousands of people who live and work in the city centre of Manchester.

lol @ everyone against more green in the city

@Anon 10:56 – I’m not claiming all of these are in the city centre (although quite a few of them are within walking distance of city centre residential locations, from personal experience), just pointing out that there are green spaces available to people (there are some smaller spaces in the centre, eg Parsonage Gardens or St. John’s Gardens, that I didn’t include in the list as well).

As I said, I’d like more green spaces in the centre but I don’t think Mancunians are especially starved of access to green space in general, and I’m not sure Ancoats is the area of Greater Manchester most in need of additional green space (given the proximity of several of the places I listed).

It’s a separate point, but it’s also only 30-45 mins on a train from Manchester’s largest train station (the one closest to Ancoats) to the Peak District – I don’t think there are any National Parks that close to London, for example.

Noone is talking about the wider green space in GM, which is pretty good and yes having the Peak District so close is a gigantic asset.. really it is.

However the idea that you’ll be ok taking a 30min bus or train ride to have a break is honestly ridiculous and makes you question what people want out of Manchester. It’s definitely not short of jobs. And these jobs can be located elsewhere in the city centre. This area and other parts of the city centre NEED green space.

Can those of you who live on the island of “Ancoats” please step off that island and look at the green space northwards along the towpath of the Rochdale Canal in Miles Platting, look at the towpath on the Ashton Canal to Philips Park beside the Velodrome, acknowledge that these proposals are additive to the existing New Islington park, acknowledge that the Council are seeking to improve the existing green space at the back of Ancoats. I could go on.
Get real.

It’s unfortunate for Manchester that nothing will ever compare to Chavasse Park in Liverpool; with its majestic vista that soothes the senses and relaxes the soul. A truly satisfying experience for for its visitors and local people.

I cant help thinking that some of the New Islington and Ancoats should do some exploring and see what green spaces there are within half a mile of their homes. There really are some extensive areas of green space. By all means lobby for its improvement in some cases, but don’t pretend that it doesn’t exist. One or two of these responses read like parody. Well done if that is what they are, if not broaden your horizons. 7,000 new, good quality jobs is spectacularly good news.

I think the Trees not Cars lobby have found this article!

7000 well paid jobs and when we really understand what the Government are locating into the “Manchester Digital Hub” then we may see a lot more positivity about what is happening with the former Central Retail Park and then actually congratulate the Council for such a strategic decision.

@Green Oasis – this is exactly the point I am trying to make. The discussion, as so often on here sadly, seems to have deteriorated into a lot of ‘straw man’ arguments (‘I can’t believe people are opposed to X’, ‘What do these people want? Y?’, etc) – for example, I don’t think anyone is arguing there shouldn’t be some green space here, that’s what the proposal is for. The ‘debate’ seems to be about whether this particular former Toys R Us carpark should be entirely green space (funded, presumably, by an increase in council tax for Manchester residents to pay for the land and for the ongoing management of the site), or partly green space and partly office space with some (quasi-)public realm.
It is undeniable, however, that Manchester residents (including Ancoats residents) currently have access to some green space, even if at least one commenter on here deems it too be too ‘rough’ for the ‘middle class’.

This is going to be my last comment on this article (assuming it doesn’t get closed for comments before this is published), as the tone of ‘debate’ is getting a bit silly in places.

A loverly park indeed Liverpool Romance.But there are many in Manchester too and 7000 jobs will not only ‘soothe the soul’ but keep the lights on and the city growing 😉